Françoise de Choiseul-Stainville, Princesse Joseph de Monaco

Bonjour!

Je suis très desolé mais mon Française est très mal et I don't want to insult votre belle langue by getting it all wrong, so I hope you don't mind if I write this en Anglais?

I have always been fascinated to the point of obsessing about the Princesse Joseph de Monaco and have now accumulated enough information to think about working on a book, which I will probably put online as I am not sure how many people would be interested in reading about it. I have made a temporary webpage here: http://www.versailles.org.uk/cute_revolutionaries/francoise_de_choiseul

I was wondering if anyone else was interested in la belle princesse? I am currently summoning up the courage to write to a few sources to try and find out what happened to her plait of hair - apparently it was exhibited at the Carnavalet in 1935 so I am guessing that the Monaco royal family still have it? Does anyone know anything more?

J'ai une très interessant livre du Duchesse de Choiseul ici, c'est par un auteur Catholique nommé Margaret Trouncer. C'est en Anglais et full of many interesting facts about the Choiseul household pendant le reignes de Louis XV, Louis XVI et dans le Révolution. La Duchesse de Choiseul est un femme très gentil et avec un âme très belle. J'ai aussi un livre par Margaret Trouncer sur Madame Élisabeth.

Many, many thanks if you read this!

Oh yes and I hope those of you who are reading my Marie Antoinette blog are enjoying it so far! I am having a break for a bit while I work on a different project but it will be back again in a couple of months. It's located here if anyone wants to have a look: http://www.versailles.org.uk/blog. I found the discussions on here very interesting while I was working on it - I hope you like the portrait par Carmontelle de la jeune Duchesse de Chaulnes. J'ai un portrait par Roslin de le duc aussi, si quel'q'un est interessant? Régard, mon Française est incroyable!

Many thanks

Melanie

Hello, Minette !

Of course, I would be interested in reading a book about a friend of Marie Antoinette. The point is... I don't know anything about Princess de Monaco, I am deeply sorry...

How far was she close to our queen ?

Best regards,
pim

Bonjour!

I am not sure - I know that she was at Versailles and that Marie Antoinette was very fond of the Choiseul family as she felt that she owed the Duc a debt for having helped arrange her marriage. Louis XVI was much less keen on the Choiseuls though so I don't think they enjoyed the same favour under his reign as they did when Madame de Pompadour was in power! Also, the Princesse de Monaco's mother had been placed in a convent by lettre de cachet when she was only a few months old and there were therefore doubts about her legitimacy which may have caused issues with regard to Marie Antoinette, as she did not receive women who were separated from their husbands? Would she also have refused to receive the Princesse I wonder?

Thank you for replying! I don't know anyone in real life who finds this sort of thing interesting so couldn't resist posting about it here - I hope you don't mind!

Melanie

Don't worry for your french Minette, you will see that my english is largely less good than your french and it's me who will dirty your language

I'm sorry but like Pim I' don't know Princess de Monaco so I can't help you :s:
But congratulation for your web site, it is very beautiful et good luck for your projets

Please do, dear Minette ! Please post anything you want about Princess de Monaco ! I would be very interested in learning more about her...

She was older than Marie Antoinette, wasn't she .

We also are completely crazy about those people... we spend hours and hours talking about Marie Antoinette, Madame de Polignac, Louis XVI, Fersen... It is as if they were here, living among us !

Merci Chou d'Amour! That is so kind of you and no one can massacre the English language more than the English do! Your English is vastly superior to my French - I am very envious!

Thank you so much for your interest! I am glad you like the website.

Melanie x

Aw, merci Pimprenelle!

I find her fascinating as she pops up in books about the period all the time but is also very elusive as there is still a lot that I don't know about her. It is like putting together a jigsaw!

The Princesse was born in 1766, so eleven years younger than Marie Antoinette. I think she was only twenty seven when she was guillotined.

Oh, I know what you mean. I get so obsessed with the whole thing and would talk for hours about them all if I could.

Melanie x

But you can speak about her! We don't know this woman so if we can learn more about her do not hesitate on the contrary, thanks to you

Well... I just took a look at Marie Antoinette's correspondence, published by Evelyne Lever, to see if I would find Princess de Monaco mentioned in the index. Nothing, alas...

Hello, dear Minette !
Was n't she (Mme de Monaco) the great love of le prince de Conti ? I am not sure about the fact, but she reminds me of Conti ?

Thank you!

I have been looking in my books here and can't find much at all. She didn't have an official role at court, as far as I can tell but other than that I don't know.

Princesse Joseph's mother in law, the Princesse de Monaco left her husband for the Prince de Condé (they later married) and was subsequently banned from the court. She was Marie-Catherine de Brignole-Sale.

Ah yes, a possible to link to Marie Antoinette is that Françoise's mother was a long term mistress of the Duc de Lauzun (they fell in love as teenagers when she married his aunt, the Duchesse de Choiseul's brother in law, the Comte de Stainville) and I suppose that at the time he was considered to be a possible father of her youngest daughter?

Before being taken to the convent, Madame de Stainville made an oath that her youngest daughter (who was only a few months old) was the child of her husband, the Comte but she was treated very differently to the couple's eldest child, Stéphanie, who later became Duchesse de Choiseul and whose parentage never seems to have been in any doubt. Madame de Stainville was sent away because she was discovered en flagrante with a popular actor but it was said that she was also the victim of a nasty revenge by the Duc de Choiseul because she had turned him down! I feel SO sorry for her. :/

Dear Minette,
excuse me for my approximative english.
I remember having read something about the Princess of Monaco while i was doing research about Rosalie Lamorlière.
The problem is ...I can't remember the title of the book. I didn't write it anywhere because there was nothing about the character i was working on.
I Think it was a book about the hospital where prisonners of the Conciergerie where sent and who was near the Notre-Dame Cathedral. I will try to find it for you but not sure i will.
Our Marie-Antoinette could affirm this. She gave me the book. Paul Belaiche had it too for his book.

Minette a écrit:

Princesse Joseph's mother in law, the Princesse de Monaco left her husband for the Prince de Condé (they later married) and was subsequently banned from the court. She was Marie-Catherine de Brignole-Sale.

So ! I made the mistake between Condé and Conti .  I was not far away !!!      Sorry !

Now that I read your post, d'eon, I remember... Didn't Belaiche Daninos talk about Madame de Monaco in his book about Marie Antoinette emprisoned in the conciergerie ?

Thank you everyone! I did some more research today and think I have found out where the relic of the Princesse's hair is being kept, which was progress indeed.

I always get confused between Condé and Conti as well.

The book about the hospital sounds interesting, D'Eon. I found some details about the examination she had to undergo when she declared herself pregnant and it made me wince a bit!

Thanks again everyone. I have updated the webpage with some of the new information.

Melanie

Indeed ! I remember that ! It is reported by Belaiche Daninos !

Citation :

I found some details about the examination she had to undergo when she declared herself pregnant

Was this examination particular?

The book I found online is: 'Les femmes enceintes devant le tribunal révolutionnaire, d'après des documents inédits'.

http://www.archive.org/stream/lesfemmesenceint00billuoft/lesfemmesenceint00billuoft_djvu.txt.


It seems, from the presence of a doctor, midwife and apothecary that it was a full physical examination. There are more details about the examination of Hèbert's poor wife (I'm guessing you all hate him but I feel sorry for his poor wife) but my French isn't good enough to work out what they mean by:
'De suite, nous procédâmes à l'examen : extérieurement, nous n'avons trouvé aucun symptôme de grossesse; le nombril était dans un état naturel, le sein et le ventre auraient plutôt iulifpié le contraire; intérieurement, la matrice et son collions ont donné également des signes contraires à la grossesse.'
Well, I get the ghist! All very grim.

Thank you!

You do not have a dictionary if you want to have the right translation?
If not there are the website translators

I used an online translator but it couldn't cope with some of it as I think the language may have been a bit too archaic?

Yes I understand these translators are not perfect :s:

Oh dear, I looked on a different dictionary and um yes that was a proper exam. For some reason I had fondly imagined that they would just have felt their stomachs but I suppose that with lives at stake a more proper exam was called for. You learn something new every day don't you!

Thank you!