Françoise de Choiseul-Stainville, Princesse Joseph de Monaco

Well, grosso modo, dear Minette, they say that this examination showed that, from an outside view, nothing showed this woman was pregnant. She had not the navel, the abdomen or the breasts of a pregnant woman.
... How strange ?!

Now, from an inside view, her womb and the cervix of her uterus showed signs contrary to any pregnancy.
... Incredible too !

So, this woman was pregnant, and her body showed not a single sign of this pregnancy ! Neither outside, nor inside !

I think Madame Hebert panicked and lied to try and save herself but oh dear, imagine the horror of enduring that only to be found out! By the sounds of things she was in a state while in the Conciergerie and Lucile Desmoulins (who I adore) had to keep her spirits up.

Who are we talking about ? Was it Hebert's wife who pretended she was pregnant, was examined and found out ?

Sorry, I think I am being confusing. Yes, it was Hebert's wife who was found out. I saw that the Princesse de Monaco had an examination but read on to see that there was more detail in the case of Madame Hébert about what an examination actually involved. I'm not sure why I wanted to know but it is interesting! I don't think they routinely performed exams on women before execution, thank goodness!

Did they execute pregnant women ? Or did they wait until the gave birth to their children ?

From what I can make out, pregnant women were sent to a special hospital prison and executed shortly after giving birth. I don't know what happened to the babies but imagine they were handed over to relatives to be cared for.

Or maybe they were given to orphanages to be raised up like good republicans.

Minette a écrit:

The book I found online is: 'Les femmes enceintes devant le tribunal révolutionnaire, d'après des documents inédits'.

http://www.archive.org/stream/lesfemmesenceint00billuoft/lesfemmesenceint00billuoft_djvu.txt.


It seems, from the presence of a doctor, midwife and apothecary that it was a full physical examination. There are more details about the examination of Hèbert's poor wife (I'm guessing you all hate him but I feel sorry for his poor wife) but my French isn't good enough to work out what they mean by:
'De suite, nous procédâmes à l'examen : extérieurement, nous n'avons trouvé aucun symptôme de grossesse; le nombril était dans un état naturel, le sein et le ventre auraient plutôt iulifpié le contraire; intérieurement, la matrice et son collions ont donné également des signes contraires à la grossesse.'
Well, I get the ghist! All very grim.

Yes!! I think that is the book i was talking about. Several women pretended to be pregnant thinking they could escape from their tragic destiny.

pimprenelle a écrit:

Now that I read your post, d'eon, I remember... Didn't Belaiche Daninos talk about Madame de Monaco in his book about Marie Antoinette emprisoned in the conciergerie ?

Yes he did. In the second volume i think. Largely based and inspired by the book i have mentioned

d'eon a écrit:

Yes!! I think that is the book i was talking about. Several women pretended to be pregnant thinking they could escape from their tragic destiny.

That's right !!! Pauline de Noinville discovered in a shop, in Spa "nombre de ventres en fer blanc, ouatés et couverts de taffetas blanc. J'ai vu même une jeune et jolie personne marchander un ventre de trois mois. Il y en avait de six et de neuf mois ... "
Incredible, is 'n'it ?

Ready do to everything possible to live. Incredible but so human!!!

To live... but just a little bit longer...

It is sad really but it was worth a gamble - after all if the Princesse de Monaco had just managed to hang on for another day, she would have been saved as she was in the very last batch of prisoners guillotined on the day that Robespierre was overthrown. That is if she managed to hoodwink the people sent to examine her.

I have just discovered this miniature of her husband's second wife:

http://www.sothebys.com/app/live/lot/LotDetail.jsp?lot_id=159432692

Am quite amused that Sothebys have got Françoise de Choiseul-Stainville's father's title wrong but this is quite an interesting piece.

Indeed... one single day could be extremely important... So many things could happen, in those troubled times...

It is definitely worth the risk! I think that if I had found myself in the Conciergerie I would have got myself a nice boyfriend pretty quickly!

Oh my gosh, the Sotheby's site is fab for finding obscure pieces! I have just found this amazing bust, which is said to be of the Princesse de Monaco:

http://www.sothebys.com/app/live/lot/LotDetail.jsp?lot_id=159436131

The dating is all wrong as she would have been 22 in 1788 but maybe it is her? This is very exciting!

Minette a écrit:

It is definitely worth the risk! I think that if I had found myself in the Conciergerie I would have got myself a nice boyfriend pretty quickly!

I wonder if it's not Humbert de Saint-Amand who speaks about women, in la Conciergerie, making love with anybody, desperately trying to get pregnant.

She looks very young, and lovely.

Minette a écrit:

It is definitely worth the risk! I think that if I had found myself in the Conciergerie I would have got myself a nice boyfriend pretty quickly!

I would try to escape, anyway... rather through the window... more difficult when pregnant, I'm afraid...

http://pics.livejournal.com/medusa/pic/0016t4eb

http://pics.livejournal.com/medusa/pic/000z9rsh/s320x240

I am trying to decide if the bust is really here so have posted with the only portrait that I have as a comparison. What do you think? Could it be the same sitter?

Oh... Those links don't work, dear... There no jpg nor gif images...

Sorry! I have edited the post now!

Ok ! When removing those img things, both links work ! I take a look at the pics and come back !

Minette a écrit:

http://pics.livejournal.com/medusa/pic/0016t4eb

http://pics.livejournal.com/medusa/pic/000z9rsh/s320x240

I am trying to decide if the bust is really here so have posted with the only portrait that I have as a comparison. What do you think? Could it be the same sitter?

Well... It's difficult to say, but could be, in my opinion. Both faces seem rather large, rond. The cheeks and the noses seem the qame too... The lips, the chins... It's possibly the same woman !

I think that there is definitely a similarity - I should have another picture of her here but the camera shook when I was taking it and you can't make her out. I am going to have another go next week!

I have also been hunting for information about her elder sister, Stéphanie, who became Duchesse de Choiseul in 1785. She was best friends with Hélène, Princesse de Ligne in their convent school and sounds like she was really spirited and interesting. I haven't been able to find a single portrait though, which is surprising considering the prominence of the Choiseul family.